10.16.2008

650c vs. 700c

I'll take this opportunity to raise an important debate in the "fixed gear trick" circle. I think that riding a 650c wheel with no overlap is a cop out. It's great seeing the amount of skill that some riders have been dialing into their tricks while dealing with a 700c barspinable bike. In my opinion, the 700c bikes are the future and the 650c fronts are limiting; horribly handling and ugly. Not to mention pedal strike! Doing tricks with a 700c wheelset is a challenge in it's own and even though it is limiting, it presents new solutions and creates new forms of riding. This takes skill and incredible timing. Everyone riding a 650c front with no overlap should be cranking out variations. Unfortunately, it's all the same. Step it up! Super Ted laying it down and showing kids how it's done. I've been working on these and it ain't easy! SuperTed Bunnyhop Barspin... from Andy Ellis on Vimeo. added points: -26" Rigid MTB forks will allow you to spin a 700c wheel... -These are generally cheaper [+/- $100] than a 650c wheel and a decrease in HT angle provides better handling than an increase... -I wasn't "insulting" anyone who rides a 650c front. This post is just the by-product of a ton of conversations I had with people while in Vegas at Interbike. -I rode a 650c front before. It's not fun and I understand there are trade-offs between a 650c and a 700c front...

13 comments:

alexander said...

a few things,

1. my bike cant barspin without a 650
2. my bike still has toe overlap with the 650
3. that video is badass
4. repeat of number 3...
5. that is all

Taylor said...

I still run two 700's but not bar-spinable and toe overlap... beside the point.

There are a lot of riders running 650's that have toe overlap...

In my opinion the ultimate way to run a 650 is with a frame specifically designed to run one. Unfortunately for trick riders this means riding a pursuit frame which is less than ideal as far as durability and comfort goes.
I think I'll be working on designing a frame with Tyler Johnson that will work like this. (more durable and more comfortable than pursuit.)

And what about the katana frames coming out with no rake... therefore 700 with no overlap ether way... ether that or equal overlap, frontwards and backwards.

Not easy to say what is to come... but two 700's does look better!

d'emploi said...

well i rocka 650 fork that barspins, has overlap and the pedals clip the ground. actually that shit has been keeping me from that keo spin stuff...i really appriciate the quick handling and backwards circles are hella harder, which makes a friends 700 front handle so easily. anyway, really i just need some tips on that spin that everyone makes so graceful. maybe i stop by that peel mess sometime soon...this debate isn't so far from the 24" front that was so popular, yet was banned from competition just cause it wasn't like the standard...or was unfair to those who didnt want to switch or it was danderous or whatever. least it goes fast as fuck.

Prolly said...

I didn't mean this post to come off as an insult to anyone who rides a 650c front.

It was mostly about the progression of the sport. There have been numerous conversations regarding "tricks" and 650c wheels and I guess this is just the result of those conversations.

Tom Mosher said...

I agree that 700c barspinning is a fun challenge and that dual 700's looks best.

But I have nothing against anyone using a 650 as a means to barspinnability. esp. since they still often have toe overlap.

Fortunately there's no right or wrong way to do this stuff.

Zattack said...

I agree with Taylor. He totally saved me from writing a longer comment. I run a pursuit which means I ride a 650c fork and wheel. I have no toe overlap and I consider that an advantage. I can throw multiple barspins when most can only do one.

alexander said...

i didnt take it as an insult at all, just the fact is that most frames with 2 700c wheels cant barspin. I agree that bikes do look a bit better with 2 700c wheels.

i guess that is a reason i have been looking at frames that can barspin with a 700c wheelset.

Kris. said...

You inspired me to post this...

http://lockedcog.com/home1/2008/10/17/irony.html

haha...thanks.

Julian. said...

this is true....i kinda feel like doing tricks in general with a 650 is sort of like cheating.... it requires less skill and sometimes looks nicer, but for those who know how hard it is to do those tricks (or not do them, in my case), i could see how a 650 is sort of screwing things up.

i do agree though, there is no proper way to do these things, but ideally, there would be some sort of uniformity in the sport, as to allow progression on one broad level as opposed to two (kids who ride 650s and kids who ride 700s).

plus that whole look is hideous to me, like a retard track bike that should have never been.

and don't get me started on bmx bars.......

don't mind me though im faded

Prolly said...

Zack,

that Davidson is the craziest bike I've ever ridden in my life!

The guys at Peel tonight and I had a good conversation about all of this. It's nice to see debates like this surfacing every so often.

I remember a year ago when some people geared their bikes to ridiculously high ratios to learn tricks. A lot of shit talking happened...

It's kind of the same thing in my opinion.

Once you break the "fixed gear" down from an all-purpose bike that you commute on, race on and do tricks on to a "tricks" specific bike, it looses it's "innocence"..

Hell, in NYC, I ride my bike at least 200 miles a week, just getting places. If I was riding a 650c or a granny gear, it'd make my life miserable!

The amount of people who send me Mysace, Flickr and Blogger messages asking if I have overlap with my BMW is really funny. Overlap is a good thing. It teaches you timing and precision. It also limits tricks and creates new artifices within this growing sport.

Hell, tonight I was getting some lip on my rear wheel and wall riding my front [hard to describe]... I wanted to barspin out, but my front foot would block that move. So now, I'll have to go back and re-evaluate my movements.

Anyway, just had to say that.

keep riding guys / gals...

Julian. said...

word up.. uniformity in equipment keeps you/everyone on their toes... standards are necessary!

mephisto said...

this is pinner 7 1/4 vs 8 1/2 decks debate all over again.

not every bike can spin with a 700c to each their own. i don't believe standards progress a sport at all. look at snowboarding and skateboarding through its progression.. everything was way out of wack. some company's had good ideas some didnt. that is what helps things further itself.

just my 2cents.

seth said...

i just want to say that i sidestep this entire debate by running a 26" front :P